Pepper Spray

Posted by Mostly Genius – July 21, 2009

Looking at the Private Citizen Equipment Poll I was really surprised to see how few of the respondents carry pepper spray. I am guessing that people don’t really understand what a valuable defensive tool it can be.

Low level of force. The real value of pepper spray is that you can apply it very early in a potentially dangerous situation. Because it is such a low level of force it can be used much sooner and with less discrimination than higher levels of force. If somebody was closing the distance with you in a dark parking lot as soon as you command them to stop and they don’t you can spray them. You would have a hard time justifying the use of your firearm, but spraying them would be entirely reasonable.

Stand-off capability. Even with good unarmed combative/martial arts skills you will still need to be fighting at contact distance. Pepper spray could stop the fight before anyone is grabbing or striking you.

Deterrent value. Pepper spray separates the casually interested assailants from the truly motivated ones. Many of those who would be willing to fist fight (and escalate from there) will quit when they get sprayed, as soon as they get sprayed. Those that want to continue after an application are at least continuing the fight with a handicap.

Effectiveness. A common complaint is that doesn’t work all the time, but in fact shooting people doesn’t work all the time either. Just as with firearms, pepper spray is more effective with good training and tactics. Most people make the mistake of threatening to use it, rather than simply spraying and using the element of surprise. Giving the assailant the opportunity to mentally prepare for getting sprayed reduces its effectiveness.

A backstop for other levels of force. Even if pepper spray didn’t produce a “one shot stop”, using it before applying a higher level of force (such as striking) will provide some legal protection. This is the same process that law enforcement uses (situation permitting), to try and gain compliance with the least amount of harm. If doesn’t provide the desired result you haven’t lost anything.

Broadly legal. In most places pepper spray doesn’t have anything like the number of restrictions that other weapons do. Where I live the only place I can’t carry pepper spray is a courthouse or similar ’secured’ area. According to state law here, a 14 year old can carry pepper spray with their parents permission.

Why not? I really can’t think of a reason not to carry pepper spray. From the poll results I see that some people are carrying multiple handguns, but no less lethal tools? You have a far greater chance of needing a low level force option than you do of needing a primary handgun, let alone a secondary. Pepper spray isn’t the tool for a deadly force confrontation, but a handgun isn’t any help until the situation reaches that point.

  • Pepper spray is restricted in New York, Massachusetts, Michigan, and Wisconsin.

  • I always carry a Key Defender. Can't think of any more low-profile and effective defensive tool (especially as gun control laws in Switzerland forbid prohibit me from carrying a firearm)

  • pax

    MG ~

    My point was that any defensive tool has both upsides and downsides. There's no magic bullet. Talking about only the upsides (no matter what the tool in question might be) is fundamentally misleading in a lot of ways.

    For various reasons, some folks can't use pepper spray, some folks can't use Tasers, some folks can't use firearms, some folks can't use martial arts, some folks can't use a knife. And some folks can't fit all of those things onto their belt or into their tool box. ;) At some point, you have to look at YOUR specific circumstance and ask yourself whether the downsides for a given tool outweigh the upsides in your particular situation. Berating people because their choices don't match yours is a lot of fun, but not always useful.

    Basically agree with your meta-point, which is that pepper spray is a useful tool. Emphatically disagree that there are no real reasons not to have it, because circumstances alter cases.

  • Pax:
    I never said it was a magic bullet. I have read a lot of both your blog and your comments. I sincerely mean that it is always an excuse with you. Instead of fishing for a corner case where something doesn't work perhaps you should spend more effort in figuring out a way where it could.

    In all of the comments I have read regarding my posts on this topic nobody has ever said anything other than they believed pepper spray was:
    - Inconvenient to carry.
    - Wouldn't be effective.
    - Might expose them to liability issues.

    All of which I have tried to address. Those that are unconvinced are more than welcome to remain so. Some of the commentary I have read on this topic is simply (and willfully) ignorant of how use of force plays out in reality. If a persons decisions are going to be based on fantasy then I have nothing to contribute.

    Berating people because their choices don’t match yours is a lot of fun, but not always useful.

    Despite the (minimal) entertainment value of calling people idiots on the internet, I am getting tired of reading comments (in other threads, and on other blogs) where people start inventing a use of force model that has no basis in reality (or law) where they get to shoot all the people that really deserve a pepper spraying, or they get to run away.

    If we (you and I) are going to be trainers we need to talk about the "downsides" of using guns in situations where it could have been solved with less force. Having skimmed your blog I don't see anything (with exception of a post about pepper spray, ironically) about anything other than firearms. Again, this was not a detailed search.

    Pepper spray is not applicable in all situations (and I have never claimed that it was) but I firmly believe that the early application of pepper spray stops fights that would have ended in more force (to include gunfire.) Ask Marty about how many fights he has stopped with OC versus the number he has stopped with shooting. I am betting it works good enough in his opinion to fit pepper spray into his toolbox.

    In closing; you have missed my major point. If you are going to carry extra gear, it should be gear that expands your capabilities. Most people need pepper spray more than they need a second gun, second reload, or other (redundant) lethal force capability. Maybe there is some "special case" which needs a special set of gear, and I am willing to begrudgingly tolerate that exception rather than pretend that because it is an exception, it should be the rule.

  • BC

    OC spray is really a non-starter for me. If I am in a situation in which I am threatened with force, I will flee. If I cannot flee, then that threat is in fact a threat of death or great bodily harm and merits the most effective response possible to stop the threat (firearm).

  • "...If I cannot flee, then that threat is in fact a threat of death or great bodily harm..."

    If I prevent you from fleeing and threaten to punch you your response is shooting? Really?
    I'd love to see some kind of case law on that theory, because there are a lot of people in prison for thinking like that.

  • The main reason I don't carry pepper spray is that a determined attacker can easily close to contact range in less time than it takes for me to spray him, determine that it hasn't stopped him, and bring my handgun to bear (especially if I haven't drawn yet). I am extremely reluctant to draw on someone who is within contact range (or will be by the time I finish), because it makes it a real possibility that he can gain control of the weapon, and nullifies the gun's greatest advantage - range.

    On a slightly related note: In many (and probably most) localities, a police officer who is attacked with pepper spray is immediately and automatically authorized to use deadly force - based solely on the assumption that the attacker's intent is to take the officer's gun, and to use the advantage given by the debilitating effects of the pepper spray to do so.

  • Sean Sorrentino

    I carry an XD .45, reload, folding Spyderco, and keychain can of Fox Labs Mean Green. i can't shoot a belligerant drunk, but i can paint him green and make him cry and then run away. when i report the guy, the cops will know to look for the guy with the green face. i gives me a lower level of force to use if i need it, and since it is attached to my keychain, i always have it, and it takes up very little extra space.

  • I don't know that I care about the dye. The cops will probably have no trouble identifying the guy with a red face who is covered in snot. Otherwise I think we are on the same sheet of music.

  • Why do I not carry OC spray? Two reasons. First, between my flashlight, knife, handgun, and reload magazine, I am already carrying a load of self-defense related items. And while my knife is not on my belt, my pager is, and if I start loading up my belt with much else, I might as well give up and purchase a duty belt and make it completely obvious. I mean, hell, if you are going to make the argument for the progression of the levels of force, you might as well start advocating that people carry collapsible batons where legal, in addition to OC spray, in addition to firearms. How they will sit down anywhere comfortably, though, is beyond me.

    As always, safety/security and comfort/convenience are a careful balance, and I simply do not see the need for the OC spray to ensure my safety.

    Which dovetails into my second reason - back when I was in the Navy, I had the distinct ... experience of being subjected to OC spray training. Basically, I stood in the middle of a field, had it sprayed across my eyebrows with my eyes closed, and then I had to open my eyes and wait 30 seconds. After that, I had to complete a four-stop obstacle course, consisting of blocking a foam bat attacking me; engaging, dropping, and restraining a red-suited individual; performing directed strikes on another red-suit; and performing a weapon-retention drill ending in another restraining. I was not alone in this joy - all of the quarterdeck watchstanders had to go through this same experience.

    And all but two of them successfully completed it, putting the sample body somewhere around 100-120.

    Sorry, but if a piece of equipment is sufficiently ineffective that a group of people that large were able to still effectively engage and defend themselves against threats, I really do not care to employ it myself. Sure, our efficacy was reduced. Sure, I was not a happy camper. Sure, I spent about three minutes with my face underwater immediately afterwards. But I learned one very important personal truth - OC spray (even military-grade stuff) will not stop a dedicated, aggressive, intent assailant.

    Ironically, that training should have allowed us QD watchstanders to carry OC spray on watch, but we never were issued the equipment... Thanks Big Navy.

    But these are all my personal experiences and opinions. Your mileage may, of course, vary. If you are comfortable with the efficacy of OC spray, then more power to you for carrying it. I find the benefits insufficient to offset the costs, so I do not :).

  • Linoge,

    I would advocate that people carry batons (where legal) except for the fact that they are basically a contact distance deadly force weapon - like knives. So the baton doesn't really give me any new capability. Law enforcement gets a pass on using batons as a less lethal weapon because of training, but that is an uphill fight for private citizens.

    Regarding the effectiveness of pepper spray, you have explained that a motivated attacker will simply fight through it. I agree. I would point out that motivated attackers fight through getting shot as well. I don't expect to see that level of motivation in most street criminals, but it certainly could happen. Failing the OC test isn't going down on their FITREP or NCOER, so what is the assailants motivation level?

    You are still missing the use of force argument. By not having a low level capability you have to "wait" for something to get bad enough for you to respond with your unarmed skills or firearm. I get to test the assailants motivation very early because I have a weapon that I can use right after harsh language (in terms of force). IF pepper spray solves the problem I am not going to see anything like the legal difficulties I would face if I had to fist fight (or gun fight) the same motivated attacker to a stop.

    By the way, I don't carry a full size can of pepper spray and I carry it in a jacket pocket or side cargo pocket, so belt space isn't an issue.

  • pax

    Why not?

    Severe asthma, that's why not.

  • Always an excuse with you, Pax. Fair enough: Use the foam kind.

  • Sorry I missed the poll. I carry a handgun, reload, 2oz OC.

    I carry the OC because I refuse to get into a fistfight that I can avoid. I can take the OC out of the holster on my belt and hold it in my hand without breaking any laws or alarming anyone. I can use it on a drunk without getting into a fistfight in which they might get me to the ground and find my pistol.

    If given the choice between OC and the spare magazine, I'd chose OC.

    If given the choice between OC and a pistol, I'm likely to choose the OC. I've never had to face the choice, but I can do more with a can of Fox than I can with a Glock.

    Another advantage of the OC is that it's cheap and disposable. I traveled to Guatemala last year for 10 days, and quite happily checked the OC and a cheap knife, got them through (non-existent) customs, carried them while there, and gave them away before getting on the plane in Guatemala City.

    I took an OC certification class at Rangemaster, and it was very helpful. I recommend taking a class where you can do role-play with inert spray. Being approached and flanked by two instructors playing bad guys, and figuring out at what point you need to deploy the spray, is quite instructive.

  • Scenario based training with OC is very valuable. I think more people would carry OC if they had a better idea of it's capabilities.

    I would probably take OC over a spare magazine myself, if I had to choose.

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