Three Battles

Posted by Mostly Genius – March 2, 2009

It is important for students of self defense to recognize that there are three battles that need to be won in order to be successful, and in fact loosing any one the battles is loosing the “war.”

The Physical Battle. This is the one that gets the most attention. All of the shooting, striking, grappling, knives and pepper spray happens in this battle. Losing the physical fight in a self defense situation could mean being killed, and the other two battles become moot. We need to win the physical battle in such a way that it sets us up for success in the other two. If you decided to end all social disagreements with gunfire you would win the physical battle and quickly lose the other two.

The Legal Battle. In our modern society if you use force above a certain threshold you will be exposed to the legal system. This exposure could be with both the criminal and civil courts. The old saying “better tried by 12 than carried by six” is true, but getting “tried” isn’t some kind of picnic. We tend to imagine some very obvious good/bad scenario where it is immediately clear to the jury that we were acting in self defense and anyone would have acted in a similar manner. By the time you are in front of a jury you have already paid huge sums of money (especially if someone was killed.) If you bankrupt your family and end up in jail cell for the long-term then you have “survived” but you really haven’t “won.”

The Moral and Ethical Battle. This battle is the most easily dismissed by people who haven’t thought this through. The gun community is full of references to “Scumbags” or “Goblins” and people who think they can kill them without remorse. Maybe that is so, but how will your friends and coworkers view the events? How will the other parents at your children’s school? None of them were there and they are getting the story from the media after the fact.

I recall one story of a private citizen that really did everything right in reporting a crime and only got involved when he felt he had to. He ended up shooting an adolescent male that had already beaten and shot a police officer. If the private citizen didn’t act that cop would have been killed. The local paper in this man’s community then released a fluffy piece about the troubled youth (with prior assault and drug convictions) who was so full of promise and love for his friends and family. This private citizen didn’t want to be a hero, he didn’t want to be a ‘gun fighter’, he didn’t want to shoot a teenage kid, but he wasn’t going to watch a cop get killed and do nothing to prevent it. His reward was having his hometown paper speculating that he was some kind of racist vigilante.

Self defense requires you to have an ethical framework that will let you look in the mirror everyday and know deep down that you did what was required. The actions you took were both appropriate and necessary. I imagine that most people with some kind of conscience will constantly reexamine such an event wondering if there was anything else that could have been done.

  • Ray
    In reference to what Mario wrote about RB, I agree wholeheartedly. He is lucky that they didn't lock him up and throw away the key. Mostly Genius is also right on. Your life is not in imminent danger. You must know and realize that when you get a carry permit, that is just what it is - a carry permit. In other words, it is a permit to carry - not a permit to shoot. I liken what RB did almost as firing a warning shot. You don't do that. Also, in Florida if you show your gun in a situation like that you would be arrested for assault at the very least, but probably illegal display of a firearm. As an NRA pistol instructor, I try to impress upon my students that if they draw or show their weapon, whether right or wrong, they are going to go to court. Remember O.J. He wasn't convicted criminally, he was sued civilly. It sounds as if whoever your CWP instructor was, he didn't hit too much on what the laws were in your State. It is possible to talk about what the State law is in your State without giving a legal opinion. Maybe RB didn't know where to find the laws in his State. In Florida when you apply for a CWP, in signing the application you state that you have been through the booklet, and have read the laws that the State has printed up for those seeking a CWP. If RB still has his concealed carry (or weapons) permit when all is said and done, hopefully he will educate himself. If he plans to carry, he better know the lawas to when to pull and when not to. Have a great day everybody.
  • Mario
    To RB - I would strongly advise for you to go over the legalities of carrying a weapon. I'm not a lawyer, but after reading your story, I do side with the police. You didn't have a right to pull your gun in this situation. Only when your life is in imminent danger from a situation you have NO CONTROL over should you pull your gun. Where you went wrong is in trying to handle the situation yourself by pulling over and trying to get the driver to pull over also. He does not have to pull over!! He probably thought you were some kind of nut and/or in danger and that's why he tried to pull away. If you are hit and the other driver does not stop, you should take the license and CALL 911. You took the matter into your own hands and then it escalated to you pulling your weapon. You where the instigator in this situation. That's why the police arrested you. Put yourself in the other drivers situation. Someone asked him to pull over, he doesn't know you or what you are capable of. Sorry, you did bad. Please talk to your CCW instructor and go over the laws before you innocently kill somebody or do something to land yourself in jail.
  • I am sorry to be responding to these comments so late, but make a few quick observations:

    Having or carrying a gun isn't all it's cracked up to be. It is only applicable under certain conditions. RB's comment is a good example of this. If you are aiming at tires you are not in a deadly force self defense scenario.

    Having a gun and getting into action in a self-defense situation is not always a simple undertaking as a practical matter. You really need to be knowledgeable about the law as well as having the physical skills and the proper frame of mind for it's use. The good news is that this is all doable.

    The deck is certainly stacked against private citizens taking action. You really have to do everything right to stay out of jail. I am not happy about the situation, but we have to deal with the reality on the ground.
  • Glenn Guss
    I am approaching 60 years old. I am over 6' tall, weigh in at 250 and, until recently, have never been afraid of another man in my life. One year ago, I had 5 heart attacks in rapid succession and shortly after that, 5 bypasses. I'm lucky to be alive, but clearly don't have the strength and stamina that I once had.
    Six months ago, after much discussion, my wife and I each purchased S&W revolvers. These are the first guns that either of us has owned. Why? We have vowed to NEVER be defenseless victims of someone who means to do us harm. We practice our shooting skills regularily and last week we applied for and received our concealed weapon permits. We can and will protect ourselves and our loved ones, if and when necessary.
  • Nick
    Don't know where our country is heading. Don't know how long our freedoms will last. Don't understand the throngs of people who vote for "gimme's" or "hand-outs". With each "hand-out" given, something is lost by those of us who believe in a good and honest work ethic. Whatever I have left, is mine and no one will be allowed to take it from me. My most important posession is my life, my family and then my friends, in that order. Let either be threatened I will, repeat, will react to protect all that is mine. I will do all things possible to avoid using deadly force. But if all my efforts fail, deadly force will be used to protect that which I hold valuable. It certainly appears that the first battle of the three battles of self-defense can be easily won. However, the next two battles are the result of an imbalanced, corrupt hierarchy that seems hell bent on destroying America.
  • I was driving through the Western
    part of Texas when I was stopped by a police officer . I thought that I was in big trouble . When he asked for my license and registration I opened my glove box and my personal carry weapon was showing . he then asked if I had a permit to carry . I showed him my out of state ,Utah, permit. He then asked if I had to use it and I said No. He then asked why I have on ? I told him that it is better to have and not need it than to need it and not have it. He then said that he was not going to give me a ticket , but he did give me a warning about the speed I was doing. In Texas some places their speed limit is 80 miles and hour and some place it is not . I got in one of those places where it is not . My luck was bad and good that night.
  • rb
    i recently had to act in self deffense or as i believe but the police seem to think different. i was struck by a semi on the highway and as i tried pulling over to deal with the accident the driver tried leaving. i suppose he didnt know or at least thats what he says it was raining and hailing heavily so it could be possible but it doest explain why after my second attempt of signaling him he finally stopped and as we were in a heated arguement and as i was standing in front of the truck and at a safe distance of at least ten (10) ft away he started towards me and actually moved so close to me that i was able to stick my arm out in a blocking motion and had to take 2 or 3 steps back and then in turn pulling my weapon after AFTER several request to stop and to turn his vehical off and wait on the cops and to wait after that is when i drew my weapon and then took aim at the front tire never firing the weapon. the driver then stopped turned the truck off and i holstered the weapon never having to chamber a shell or fire . BUT I WAS ARRESTED in terristic threat and false imprissonment then later dropped to MISC. waving a gun at another but in turn feeling physically threatened for my safety and leagaaly carrying my regestered gun and with my permit i was the one who was taken in . IT DOESNT MAKE SINCE
  • I would imagine carrying a gun is similar to buying life insurance or anny kind of insurance. One hopes one never has to use it but its there if needed. There are many instances that having a gun would complicate the situation and result in "brandishing" rather than a solution. I have been lucky so far but as I age and become less able to defend myself and less able to extricate myself quickly from a situation I feel I need a gun to level the playing field. I suddendly understand what a gret deal of women must feel all the time in terms of vulnerability. I have become the "old guy" and can know longer project an image of strength and confidence. I feel I need a fall back position. The truism is never confront a person whose neck is bigger than your leg. My neck is not quite that thin yet but the physique is fading as I approach sixty. I hope never to find out if I could take a life. I personally could never pull to trigger on an animal, even for food. I respect others that hunt but personally could not do that. I find the thought of killing another human unimaginabel except if my life or my family's life was threatened imminately
  • Robert A.Dart
    I am 72 years old, will be 73 this August but I do feel that if it came down to a me or the a--hole trying to defile my home, my family, the sucker will die if I have no other choice. I am a former Marine and have put in my time for my country. I honestly feel the laws are so full of itinerant/ignorant/money grubbing lawyers that it is going to ruin this country if the population doesn't get up off its rearend and take action. I hope I never have to use terminal force, but if necessary, I will.
    I took a life one time in my life when a lowlife ran a red light doing over 50 in a 35 zone, ran a red light and hit my car, which contained myself and my son. We walked away, the 3 in the other car didn't, the driver's wife died from the injuries, I feel were created when she was pulled out of the vehicle by people who didn't know what they were doing and did not wait for professionals to get there. I feel no remorse over this since I did all I could to prevent the accident.
  • R
    I have been in a situation in where i took a human life. Not in any war or in self defense. I was 47 years old and hit a pedestrian with my vehicle. The man had just dropped his car off at a dealership to be serviced and ran across the street to meet his ride, in the dark, while I was on my way to work and I hit him which resulted in his death. At first, I was very remorsful and kept up the stiff chin talking to the police, rescue workers and my family. Then, I started thinking about the man's family and how they must feel to lose that loved one. I went through a period to where I did'nt want to hunt (my passion) and could'nt bring myself to kill a squirrel that kept tearing my house apart trying to nest in the attic. could'nt even stomp a mole that was tearing my yard up. I resorted to repellents to keep these life forms away when it would have been much easier to kill those pests. Well, I have continued to use the deterents for the animals, they are only doing what is natural to survive. Criminals are out for our blood and will stop at nothing to get what they want. At 46 years of age, I suffered a heart attack and let me tell you, I may die from that or some other illness but i'll be damned if I will cower in a corner while me or my family are being defiled by some low life bastard. I will protect myself and family and I believe I will know when to use deadly force to protect us.
  • I remember several years ago when I took my CCL in Texas. The first thing that struck me was the instructor's comments. I don't recall his exact words but they were on the order of, "If you plan to carry you better think about what it means to take the life of another human being." That was a huge undertaking for me. And to this day, I do not carry because of that thought. But now, I have come to terms with it and feel, when it comes to myself or my family, I have made my choice. I will carry.

    Of course, we have the right to choose, but we do not have the right to choose the consequencs of our choices. Which, I believe, is the point of your article. Even if we "win" we could lose big time!
  • Bob
  • Bruce
    Excellent thoughts! True, we normally think only of now, the physical fight we are preparing ourselves for every time we practice drawing a shooting. Thank you for the insight.
blog comments powered by Disqus