Stand-your-ground Laws

Posted by Mostly Genius – December 1, 2008

Standing their ground: More citizens enforcing the law themselves

I can’t even believe that there is a question about this being a good thing. Thankfully we have Helmke to obfuscate with extreme stupidity:

“The real question is do we respect the criminal justice system or do we go back to a vigilante, every-man-for- himself situation?” asked Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

A vigilante is somebody who bypasses the justice system. Active resistance, pursuit, or apprehension of criminals doesn’t constitute being a vigilante unless you aren’t planning on turning them over to the police. Vengeance and retribution are not components of self-defense. Capitulation and cowardice are not civic virtues.

  • Mark, I am not sure who you are addressing your comment to.

  • Mark Sherman

    So basically you want a system where violent felons are allowed to murder you or your family, only to have orderly justice to punish or execute them later AFTER you are dead? Isn't THAT revenge? Since when is defending your life vigilanteism? I agree if you are threatened, you display a weapon and the person tries to flee and you shoot him you are then a vigilante, judge jury and executioner. You should go away for a VERY long time. A gun, knife, bat whatever is a tool to stop someone from killing you. Once the threat ends you have no right to use that tool. Are you suggesting that my 125 Lb wife has no right to defend herslef from a 250 Lb murderer or rapist with an effective tool? Would you rather have a nice policeman in YOUR bedroom and on every corner? Using deadly force at the moment you are threatened is not revenge my friend. Deadly force includes mere display of a weapon. I used to drive a cab. I had to use deadly force (display only) twice during armed robberies. No shots were fired, the robbers fled, and I am still alive. Do you want to deny me that right? Licensed and trained people who have gun permits are not the problem. Punish the people who use guns irresponsibly! I do not need nor do I want the police to protect me or my family. Stand your ground only means you do not have to run and risk being shot in the back when threatened by deadly force. It is not a blanket license to shoot someone after the threat has ended. Get a life and let law abiding persons who are licensed protect themselves and their families! Armed felons do not respect the law or your life!

  • Cyborg Bill

    I keep hearing about "vigilantes" and people "taking the law into their own hands" as if LEOs and ONLY LEOs are legally able to make a lawful arrest. I know of at least one state where that is not so. I do not live in another state (tried it a couple of times and always came home to Texas) and cannot say what is lawful in other states but I CAN tell you what is lawful in Texas.

    According to the Texas CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
    CHAPTER 14. ARREST WITHOUT WARRANT
    Art. 14.01. OFFENSE WITHIN VIEW. (a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a warrant, arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence or within his view, if the offense is one classed as a felony or as an offense against the public peace.

    Art. 18.16. PREVENTING CONSEQUENCES OF THEFT. Any person has a right to prevent the consequences of theft by seizing any personal property that has been stolen and bringing it, with the person suspected of committing the theft, if that person can be taken, before a magistrate for examination, or delivering the property and the person suspected of committing the theft to a peace officer for that purpose.

    If I observe a felony or an offense against the public peace (disorderly conduct, tresspassing, public lewdness among others) or theft, I am entirely within the law to arrest someone for something I personally wittness. I am not at that time "taking the law into my own hands" I am in fact following the law.

    I have only exercised this right twice - both times for shoplifting while I was on duty at a strip mall. The store manager saw a person acting stragnely, I watched the person stuff things into their bags and when they stepped through the doorway of the store and were properly in the area of my jurisdiction, I approached them, asked if they would open their bag for me. When they reluctantly did so I asked for their receipt. When they indicated they had none I asked them to turn around while I cuffed them. The store manager having called SAPD, when the officer arrived I turned them over to him. In one case the theft was under $50 which is not an amout to be jailable. Unfortunately, the thief had outstanding warrants so she got a ride downtown. In the other case the perps - a couple with their 4 small (sub 6 years of age) children in tow - had stowed nearly $75 worth of merchandise in various places in the baby's stroller. Seeing as how they took the stuff from a Dollar General, that was a LOT of stuff. Child Protective serves was called along with SAPD. Same officer who took in the previous perp responded to this call. The kids got a ride to a shelter and a few days in foster care while the adults got a ride downtown and stay at the Bexar County Hilton.

    But I was at all times within the law. If I saw something going down that was a felony I would hollar for SAPD first and then intervene if - ONLY IF - necessary. GOD! but I hope thay pass that open carry law here next spring.

  • "Capitulation and cowardice are not civic virtues."

    About half the country disagrees.

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